Selling in a Time of Corona – S2E1 – Voice of the Customer | Andrew Pritchett

Creative intro

Song - Kate Turchin: This song is dedicated to my install base, the ones that make me who I am. This goes out to you. [music] When I need someone to listen, and it seems no-one cares at all. When my pipeline's looking slender, I know you'll always take my call. You've put the customer in customer success. Challenge me to be better, hold me to my best. There's nothing I want more than to help you succeed. Call on me any time you need. Hey Mr. Customer, your old friend on the line, remember that last time, we increased your ROI? Well, I've got something that's brand new for you to try, I think you're gonna really like, I think you're gonna really like. So let me help you to help me to help you. And we can win together yes we do.

Elliot Epstein - intro: So someone ate a bat apparently and the world turned upside down. Hi, I'm Elliot Epstein. And I’ve spent the last 20 years of my life coaching, consulting, training, and speaking about all facets of sales development, pitching, presentations, negotiation, the C-suite sales calls and all of the various components in the sales cycle in between. And now we find ourselves in a world that's very foreign. Welcome to Selling in a Time of Corona.

Elliot Epstein:             That intro was the customer success song by Kate Turchin, the ideal lead in to Season Two of Selling in a Time of Corona. Firstly, let me say thank you for the hundreds of likes and comments and thousands of downloads of Season One. It's great to know these ideas have not spoiled your walks, that they've clearly resonated and in many cases have helped you win and retain clients . In Season Two, we'll now be covering more of the voice of the customer, sales coaching under COVID, and a bunch of new topics about professional business development in 2020 and beyond. And we kick off with a real treat. A terrific insight into the world of a C-level executive. The true voice of the customer. My special guest is Andrew Pritchett, Chief Information Officer or CIO for Grant Thornton, respected globally as a major global accounting organization with over 1300 people in Australia, and over 50,000 people globally.

Andrew has over 10 years’ experience as a CIO in professional services firms. So you can imagine how many times he's been pitched at, how many stakeholders he's had to manage and how much change he's seen in that time. He's followed my content for some time, probably to keep up with what you ratbags are up to. And I caught up with him in the middle of running his entire IT operation remotely from his impressive book-lined study at home. Dare I say, the next 27 minutes could change your career. Hello Andrew, and welcome to Selling in a Time of Corona. It's fantastic to have the voice of the customer to kick off Season Two and, some great insights you can share obviously about what it's like for a CIO to handle what's going on in the world and to share some ideas about how the sales profession can handle this so that we can all become better at what we're trying to do. So I'd be interested to kick off with during this time, what have your partners and suppliers done during COVID-19 that's impressed you and helped you?

Andrew Pritchett:     Well, it's interesting. I think the biggest one that the biggest impact we've seen is when they've been really reliable, when we've counted on them, so we're still having deals being done. Like we've still got a business to run. We've still got, lots of things, you know, lots of fires in the iron, you know, irons in the fire. I think the biggest one is when we've actually reached out to them, the ones that have been successful. So this is a downside as well. The ones that have been successful, they've actually been reliable . Where they haven't been reliable, it's sort of just faded away or dropped off into like a black hole. And yeah, I think that, that's it. I think the other one is when they've shown actually an interest, ask how we are going,. In our firm where I work, where our whole firm is on 0.8 now. So on reduced, reduced hours. And, you know, when the people have taken the time to show empathy and get to know and, and maybe make it easy, for us to, you know, by giving us information in a timely fashion and that's been where it's really, you know, we've done really well.

Elliot Epstein:             That's great. So . You mentioned reliability, Andrew. How do you define reliability in a time like this?

Andrew Pritchett:     It's really interesting. We'll be dealing probably on a weekly basis with maybe a dozen suppliers, you know, rotating different suppliers. You know, we probably have 140 suppliers, I think, in, in our budget. I'm picking up a phone call, you know, and it sounds stupid when we call you, you know, you answer the phone, and then, you know, actually meet the deadline. So like, when you said, you know, we'll look good, or not, we've got something. A good, good example was, laptops early on. You know, this year we're actually ordering a lot of laptops and because of, you know, supply chain issues, we couldn't get them. But even just getting the order in, when we dealt with the person who sells us our devices, you know, it's I should be able to get that back to you by Monday afternoon. And, you know, Monday afternoon would come and you'd either have it, or you'd have some sort of communication explaining the delay, with other, you know, some of our other suppliers we've dealt with all, we should come back to you by Monday afternoon, you know, by Friday, you're following them up. You haven't heard anything. So I don't necessarily think I'd define reliable as you know, execution. Though, that's important, but it's actually almost like reliable communications, just having comfort that I don't have to worry about following them up.

Elliot Epstein:             It's interesting that these are the basics. And sometimes people don't like delivering bad news and there are a number of people in sales that would rather say nothing then pick up the phone and say, Hey, Andrew, I know we said, we'd get back to you on Wednesday. It's not going to happen. The engineer is not available. The stock's not coming in, it's on a boat somewhere, and I'm really sorry, but, that's, that's the truth. And just being comfortable with the truth, regardless of what it is, is so much more valuable because it'd be worth sharing. I mean, what is the impact when you don't know what's going on?

Andrew Pritchett:     And to be honest, it makes me look like a complete idiot. It's basically throwing me under the bus, so I'm having to follow up. So I'll actually, I've got internal stakeholders. So I also have to play sort of a sales role sort of being that I have to communicate to the people that I'm dealing with it, how you, you know, we're looking at getting these laptops, you got a hundred new starters or whatever. You know, we're not going to get them, so we need to have a plan B. So we haven't got a plan B or a contingency. And because I'm relying on something that has come through that, you know, is going to come through that they got, you know, the people who have told me no bad news, as you sort of say, then it really puts egg on my face, you know, really puts the team under stress. You know, worst case is,          we actually then pull the contingency and go to plan B only to find out like a couple of days later, that plan A was ok.

And then we're all running around trying to reset expectations and redoing work. And yeah, so it's, especially in this time where the touch points with the people everyone's working from home, you know, just the, communication's really tough with individuals and everyone's at a highly stressed out, you know, they're at the edge and then you throw a couple of things in, it really breaks down relationships quite easily. I think even more than ever, it's more important to deliver, but everyone understands we're in a global pandemic. It's not like it's not in the news it's but yeah, it's a really interesting, it's really interesting because for me, I'd just prefer to know the bad news and be able to react ,contingency or having you help me with my contingency. And that could be another opportunity, you know?

Elliot Epstein:             Absolutely. People talk about building relationships and all the marketing and sales activities that go into doing that. But I think they underplay how critical what you've just discussed is compared to all the other relationship building activities that people tend to get focused on. So that's a fabulous insight. It leads me to the next question I have about how people are engaging with you, which is, have you found people are pitching to you more, less, or the same during this period?

Andrew Pritchett:     But in preparation for talking to you, I actually spoke to my colleague Carlo and we actually had a good 15 minute conversation about this . Was supposed to be a 30 second question, and we actually, don't know. We think we're getting a lot more email type stuff and a lot more promotional, like promotional pricing on, you know, introductory pricing sort of weird things that really doesn't interest us because having a low three month price during the pandemic doesn't really help us. It's almost worse for us to even to consider a free trial right now or something like that. But besides a couple of our actual supplies, we haven't had that much contact. What we have seen is with seeing vendors coming in other angles, other ways like, a good example is I'll somehow get an email that I may or may not respond.

Andrew Pritchett:     I'm pretty bad at responding to unsolicited emails, but then, you know, within a day they'll have called our CIO or CEO, and then we're having a meeting with them, sort of explaining why I haven't considered product X product Y because the promises, you know, the promises that have been given are quite, attractive right now, like we can help you with your, your room booking, you know, desk booking and then because of COVID, you're going to need to have a, you know, social distancing strategy. We can help you with that. And it's like a lot of it's common sense, but the investment profile , they don't talk about the ROI and the investment profile. And when I point out, yeah, we looked at this, but this is kind of the pricing structure. They're like, you know, the people aren't interested potentially. And what they've done is they've created all this work, but for not much benefit where, you know, so what we're seeing that sort of answers your question, but sort of seeing these weird, like tangents and we were talking about it, I'm like, almost think like, maybe, I mean, you can answer this probably for me it feels like a lot of the sales people are being let go, or aren't there, so other people are taking on their roles and they're trying different approaches. Does that make sense?

Elliot Epstein:             Yeah, I get what you're saying. Look, whilst certain industries are obviously dramatically affected and head count has been reduced. If you look at your world in IT primarily, that's not what I'm seeing. And certainly with my clients I'm not seeing a reduction in head count around, sales, pre-sales, in fact, I'm seeing the opposite. I'm seeing more presales resources being hired, project delivery people. I'm seeing people making moves from, you know, seriously good vendors to another seriously good vendor. So, I'm not seeing any downturn in the IT industry because as you know, things like infrastructure, security, are paramount right now, and it's not the only industry that's, that's buoyant, but it's obviously critical given we're all online.

Andrew Pritchett:     So I think it might be the new entrants then like, cause they thought of all these new entrants in the market right now that are trying to capitalize on, on the situation. Does that make sense?

Elliot Epstein:             So the people that are moved, the people that have moved want to make a statement pretty early and they may be going about it in a clumsy fashion because they want to, they want to get their figures in earlier and they've, they've come across to somewhere else on big bucks and they've potentially told their new employer that they've got a great network and they want to make a splash. The other thing though, that you raised, which is interesting is that activity is, is down. So yeah. Yeah. My take on it is that everyone's sitting there flat chat, looking after existing clients, but in terms of new reaching out, I think people have got into their minds that, everyone's got zoom fatigue, everyone's busy. There's already so much to do. I'm already working remotely. I'm coping with the kids and everything else at home.

So if, if I looked at activity generally, and I talked to sales leaders about this, the majority of them would say to me that the activity now is worse than it was because people are unsure about phone calls, texts, video conferences, reaching out. They're worried about being seen as being too pushy sometimes. Or maybe you didn't respond as you said before, because you're flat out. And, and it's one of the things that I've been coaching for years is to overcome selling blocks. And I think one of the COVID selling blocks right now is, surely they're not ready for me right now. So you've got both ends of the scale. You've got the people that are trying to make a splash in a new role or trying to get their figures going hard. And you've got other people that have dropped off and you might be seeing that anomaly.

Andrew Pritchett:     That's what I think you've what you're describing is exactly what we're feeling. This really weird, like new approaches that we haven't heard of before, not new approaches and new people, new new companies approaching us in all different ways and different tangents and our general, the people we have dealt with, we have, you know, apart from maybe one or two companies, we haven't, we just, it's just a void, silence.

Elliot Epstein:             Yeah. It's curious. So, what are your expectations if someone's got a new idea, you mentioned that one of your potential suppliers tried to go through C level and then across to you. So what approaches do you think resonate right now?

Andrew Pritchett:     Yeah, I think the ones that actually work, I know this is gonna sound really, I don't, I mean, I don't know how it's going to sound, but like I think some of our suppliers, like when they rang, first thing they do is ask how you are like, instead of, you know, I maybe just check on you, maybe even just check on you that don't have anything to sell. Like, you know, just make sure you're keeping that connection or, you know, not keeping, not being disingenuous, but like actually keeping in touch, with people and sort of saying , hi, how's it going? You know, is there any way I can help, you know, what's, what's going on, as opposed to hey I've got this new product I want to sell, blah, blah, blah. It's actually making sure, you're talking about that, I'm not going to call now block because of COVID.

Andrew Pritchett:     I think one of the things that this is this whole thing, that whole scenario that we're in has done, is raised the profile of mental health, raise the profile of people-to-people sort of connections. So I think that is a really key, I think they should, everyone should feel comfortable just to ring someone up and check on them. And you might find, you know, when that's happened to me, a good example of that is we have a really good , we're a Xerox customer and we have a really, really good relationship with Ricoh. Because our Xerox people barely talk to us and you know, to be honest, I think that the guy that we were dealing with, he's not there anymore. Like, because you know, they've restructured or he left. We don't know why he's not there. So I can't even comment on it. But the Ricoh people, because we're at the end of an eight year contract, the Ricoh people were like keeping in touch, Hey, you know everyone's out of the office, there's not much we can do for a couple of months, but if you need anything, let me know, how can we make it easy for you? Does that make sense?

Elliot Epstein:             Yeah. And obviously given print is way down because there's no one in the office printing. It's interesting. I've heard this from another couple of suppliers that there are those that, that care and show care. And in fact, the first episode of this whole series of Selling in a Time of Corona is called Empathy. Because if you don't have that, and you mean it, then you're just kidding yourselves in terms of longterm relationships.

Andrew Pritchett:     A hundred percent, I think that's right. Well, where we've actually still have existing relationships that has sort of gone on, has definitely been where the people actually, when we call them they actually care that we're actually calling with a problem . But the other couple of things that I thought were, you know, key, you know, what could be a potential. I think people have to be more transparent with their product detail. Like it's always been like quite glossy documentation. And you know, I think what we're finding where we're getting a lot more questions, especially around, I know it may be, it's not COVID related, but it's definitely around cyber security and, and you know, we have to be, my job now is , I'm expected to be both high level and really in the detail. And that is quite difficult for me to do with the time I have.

Andrew Pritchett:     So what's worked really well is when someone's almost spoon fed me the detail. I don't mean like an exact summary. I mean actually, you know, don't even wait for me to ask for an architectural diagram, you know, make sure you've got all your hygiene done and you know, what, you know, ask them, you know, for me, what, what do you need Andrew for us to, what do, what does your company need to understand for us to actually close this deal or whatever. I got, well, I need to get the cloud checklist done. I need to be confident of your architecture and I need to, I need to know your pricing scale or your, you know, your pricing. That's one point I've also wanted to raise. But if I get, if I get a few, if that happens, it makes it really easy for me to have the information and then to have the questions come to me from the people who are my stakeholders and be confident answering. Whereas if I don't, you know, if I can't answer those questions, that the deal just goes nowhere.

Elliot Epstein:             That's a fantastic point. And you know, one of the things that I've been talking about in a lot of my work with sales organizations is to move them from the old style step by step approach, which taught them that you hold back on certain proposals and you ask permission to go to the next phase and all that rubbish that, that I'm sure you've been aware of, to a much more open, authentic, transparent point of view, which is if the client needs it, you're there to help. You're there to advise, it's like your doctor saying to you, listen, what you probably need to do is reduce your blood pressure and then not giving you a prescription for the blood pressure tablets.

Andrew Pritchett:     Yeah, that's exactly what it's was like.

Elliot Epstein:             Yeah, it's crazy. Right. So the good, the good organizations are doing that. But there is still a bit of work to go for people that want to go step by step and fill in their CRM process. Rather than looking at it from the client's side, which is what you're talking about and understand that from your position, you need that kind of openness and that integrity and that detail to be able to even plan going forward. So that's a fabulous insight, Andrew. In terms of planning, how does the current situation with COVID affect your budgeted implementation schedule going forward?

Andrew Pritchett:     So some things, so for us, we separate two things into two categories, BAU which is business as usual or investment. So business as usual, so you know, I'd probably have to get a, you know, a security penetration test or an ethical hack or something like that. That's probably going to have to happen. It's just like, you know, a business hygiene. So that stuff is probably not that impacted, but there is one, there is one subtle impact on that. I'm thinking investments they're absolutely that's actually a challenge. I would suggest that the approach is different. We're now looking at the approach is probably not, not as traditional , there's more smaller pilots rather than big bang implementations, which means that I think from a sales person's perspective, they've got to, you know, be willing to go, you know what, I'm here for a 12 month deal. Not for three months, I might be, we're looking at one, one of the products we're looking at these for document automation, we're going back and forth sort of saying, you know, it's a big deal, the overall deal. But what we want to do is we want to automate, you know, two or three documents to pilot it, to get people comforted for our business case, because we've got to, you know, real reluctance to, to spend at the moment unless it's proven.

So the only way to prove that is a pilot, that the sales people on the other side, like, well, you know, that's not the way we do it, do it our way or out, you know, or basically, yeah, you have to do it our way. We really want you as a customer, but we're actually not able to accommodate that request. And I think I've got two of those at the moment that are probably going to go like nowhere, because the practical realities are, I have trouble getting funding right now, unless I've got a hundred percent, you know, it's almost like a hundred percent guarantee, you know, that it's going to be a good project.

Andrew Pritchett:     The only way to do that is to shore it up with a pilot. But that, you know, a one month trials, probably not a pilot, the licensing model doesn't work. So, you know, so the way we approach it is we sort of say, we'll pay for the services, but for the software, we want to only pay for the 10 users. Yeah but you've got a hundred users, again, eventually we'll probably have 500 users. You're right. But we can limit it to 10 users, but..., they've got a real reluctance to do that. But then that means the foot's not in the door. If that makes sense, Elliot.

Elliot Epstein:             A hundred percent, it baffles me why so many sales organizations are so inflexible. I understand to some extent some of the multinationals because of the rigidity of some of the multinationals, especially US-based companies that might have imposed the way certain things have to happen. And they can't do that in Australia. However, I've been talking about this with pitches for years, which is if you can't schedule, plan, design, craft a proposal on a solution that suits what the customer wants, then what are you doing? You can't just walk in with one flavor of yogurt and say, that's it. If you don't like vanilla, what's wrong with you. And then still spend time on that deal and wonder why it's spinning its wheels and sitting in the sales cycle for six or nine months. It's just madness. And the companies that get that flexibility are doing well.

And I know many organizations that have, and I refuse to use the word 'pivoted' that have recrafted the way that they go to market with proofs of concept, with pricing schedules with the way designs are done, the way things are cut instead of three year contracts might be two year contracts or whatever the flexibility needs to be. And what you've just highlighted there is, is a fabulous insight for anyone listening, no matter what industry you're in, which is if you've deeply understood and diagnosed the situation, you built a relationship with the client, it's your job on the sales side to craft something that is going to help that decision maker get a result for their organization. It's not your job to just ram a widget down their throats, or if you can't do it for whatever reason, because you've got strict rules that stop you from doing it, tell the customer and move on to someone else. It's that simple.

Andrew Pritchett:     Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. I think the only other thing I can think of around what may have affected, my implementation and budgeting is absolute cashflow sensitivity. So that also goes back to, you know, almost having the flexibility. A lot of the vendors want 12 months upfront. And for me to get that through as a business charter right now, really challenging. Whereas if I just said, we'll try it for the first 12 months or 18 months, we're going to charge you month by month

Like that's almost doable in nearly every situation, but even having that conversation with the vendors so far, but mainly for software, having those conversations just hit roadblock every time. Now we don't do it that way. You know, I can get, I can get this through if you can do it month by month, NO!

Elliot Epstein:             It's astounding, isn't it. And at the end of the day, all that happens is you don't get a product that might help you in your business and they don't get the revenue. So it's just crazy. Andrew, this has been truly wonderful. I really appreciate you spending some time with me on this because your insights have been terrific. I know I need to let you go now, but thank you for being a part of Selling in a Time of Corona. I've really, really enjoyed this.

Andrew Pritchett:     I really appreciate the opportunity, Elliott.

Elliot Epstein:             Thanks, Andrew.

Now I thought ahead, in case you want to take advantage of his generosity in sharing his insights. The last thing we want is for him to be inundated with requests for meetings because your pipeline is shallower than the Victorian branch stacking ethics committee. So I asked him to record a very clear message to anyone who's on the make.

Creative outro:          I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills skills. Skills I have acquired a for a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. I will look for you. I will find you. And I WILL kill you.

Elliot Epstein:             Stay safe, stay positive. Remember your ears are safe, Andrew and I were 20 gigabytes apart during this entire podcast. Take care of yourselves ..... until next time.