Selling in a Time of Corona – S2E8 – The Accent on Performance

Creative intro (from The Bastard - Russell Peters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTooblVXkw)

Russell Peters:            I'm going to let you in on a secret about Indian people, for all the people here or people watching whoever wherever you are. If you're not Indian, this is a message to you on behalf of all Indian people. Hope my brown people don't get upset that I'm letting out our secret. But just so you guys know, Indian people are fully aware of what their accent sounds like, we don't actually need you. We know exactly what it sounds like. We know it's not the coolest accent in the world.

You know, you're never going to see two Indian guys in a club standing and going, Hey, man, aren't we cool. Don’t we sound really hip? We are going to meet all the bitches tonight. I'm pimping!” Not going to happen, you know. We know what it sounds like, you know, and don't think for one minute that we don't know that you're mocking us when we're not around. It's an accent. We're not deaf. I don't think when we walk into Home Depot and go, “Hello, I'm looking for paint”.

“Paint is right down that aisle over there, sir”.

….. ….” Hey, Jim, did you hear that guy is looking paint….paint … paintttttt !”

“Let's go grab a cigarette and talk about this for half an hour.”

We know you're doing it, you bastards!

Elliot Epstein:             So, someone at a bat apparently, and the world turned upside down. Hi, I'm Elliot Epstein, and I’ve spent the last 20 years of my life coaching, consulting, training and speaking about all facets of self-development, pitching, presentations, negotiation, the C Suite sales call, and all of the various components in the sales cycle in between. And now we find ourselves in a world that's very foreign.

Welcome to Selling in a Time of Corona.

That opening clip from the wonderful Canadian Indian comedian Russell Peters is just one example of the fundamental differences between people, and accents play an important role in how our communication is received. Now, if you suddenly think this episode is going to be filled with racist overtones, please feel free to download the podcast “Looking Up My Own Backside” by the production team at Missing the Point. It's actually about helping native and non-native English speakers improve the clarity of their communication in sales and in leadership, so there are no blocks to their expertise and persuasive messages shining through. My expert guest today is going to chat with me about his work coaching businesspeople to feel more confident in their presentations and their pronunciation to have an even greater impact on audiences.

But first. Different accents have different effects on us in today's global world. You could have a Londoner selling to Australians and Americans selling to China, an Indian or Korean presenting to Americans or an Aussie selling to Japan. And the nuances of language, tone, pronunciation and flow can be vital. For example, let's take a look at a common South African accent. Often a very assertive tone with language to match:

“Let me tell you something, this is the best system you'll ever get. Here's what you must do.”

By contrast. The Scottish accent is nearly always voted as one of the most trustworthy and has been used for thousands of financial services, commercials and videos:

“When you buy from Atlantic. You're buying security and trust.”

The Israeli accent, however, in business is a little different, often filled with both swagger and incredulity that the client doesn't immediately understand how good the solution is after only a five-minute presentation:

“And look, there is nothing to talk about here, it's the best technology, it's the only one. What are we dancing here or what?”

Which brings me to my special guest today, Daniel Wolfson. He is a presentation and communication coach specializing in accent reduction for businesspeople to improve clarity. And he does what we both love doing, helping people succeed in their business lives. Get ready to go on an around the world trip as we discuss key tips on helping anyone who would like a little more confidence in how they communicate.

Here is my chat with Daniel Wolfson.

In my best Australian accent, Welcome to Selling in a Time of Corona, Daniel. It's great to have you on the program. How are you?

Daniel Wolfson :        I'm really good, Elliot. Thanks for having me here.

Elliot Epstein:             Pleasure. Now, you get involved in some very interesting assignments, obviously, with your work. So, tell us what you do when you talk about improving the communication skills of executives and salespeople and leaders in the realm of accent reduction and the other work you do with presenters?

Daniel Wolfson :        Yeah, sure. So, the main thrust of my work is, as you say, around accent reduction, which is a very unique little niche that's growing, I think, quite rapidly.

What I do is I ask people how they feel about their communications, so are they happy with the way that they communicate? Do they feel confident? Are they getting the message across? And is accent or pronunciation anything to do with those issues? And if it is, then we'll tackle it and we'll start trying to find out what their little sound issues that are going on and how we can reduce that, neutralize it or make it sound more native.

Elliot Epstein:             Interesting. So, at the start of this podcast, I mentioned a few different types of people in terms of the accents and the language that's used in different countries.

And I'll be interested to get your perspective, because we're a great multicultural society. I'm going to throw some different nationalities at you and perhaps you could share with us the typical issues you might see and how you might go about improving them and how that clarity can be more forthcoming as we go around the world map. So, we’re sitting in Australia, of course, so let's start with Australia, because it's not something we think of as an accent issue.

But, for example, if you come from a rural background or maybe Queensland and you have a broader Australian accent, that tends to be a bit slower and tends to be at the front of the mouth like that, some people have that, that's where they grew up. And that's OK. What sort of things do you address with them?

Daniel Wolfson :        So, the Aussie accent is a really interesting one, because obviously this is a native English accent, so my work revolves around helping people to speak English, sounding like they are a native English speaker. Now, Aussie accents are a native English accent, obviously, but still there are very regional accents in the world of native English accents in the population of native English speakers across the world.

Aussie accents are what I would call a regional one. So, it's a less common one. And a lot of people do have trouble understanding Aussie accents as they get stronger. Partly it's the lack of pronunciation that goes on. It's a lack of articulation when a lot of people from other countries move to Australia, especially if they're speaking English as a second language.

Their first tactic for understanding native speakers is to watch the lips, watch and read the lips, what their lips are saying and what the problem they have with Aussies is that Aussies tend not to move their lips so much. It gets really relaxed at the front of the mouth and lips and barely even moving that much because it's all relying on the throat a lot of the time.

And so, they get a bit of a shock when that happens.

Elliot Epstein:              I remember once conducting a presentation skills program and I had a lot of US participants and I was coaching eye contact where instead of holding eye contact with the audience, this particular presenter, the American presenter, was going from side to side, which, as you probably know, is called “The Lighthouse”, going from side to side. And I said, “Are you aware that you look like a lighthouse?” And in the break, one of the senior managers came up to me and said, if you ever want to work with us again, I suggest you don't use that language.

And I was a bit taken aback and said, “I beg your pardon, but what have I done that's untoward?”

And she said, “How dare you call my guy a lard arse!”

Daniel Wolfson :        Okay. It was a good example.

Elliot Epstein:             So that broad articulation is an issue.

And, you know, when Australians are selling to Americans, for example, and even some Europeans, that issue that you raised is really prominent and it's something that needs to be articulated. So that's great advice about watching the lips and making sure pronunciation is a lot tighter.

If we if we move up the map towards Asia, tell me what you see, because Asia is obviously very different, very different countries. So, yeah, let's look at China. And Singapore is two examples. What do you typically see there?

Daniel Wolfson :        OK, so I'll start with China.

So, China, the pronunciation features that they particularly have an issue with is the “N” and the “L” and they're particularly hard ones. And that's really interesting because if you think about what's happening with the tongue, with those two sounds, the tongue is actually in exactly the same spot for both the N and the L. If you try and do an N and an L right now, your tongue will touch the roof of the mouth just behind the teeth, for both of those sounds.

And they have a very, very weak position there. And so that's really hard for them to articulate that sound.

So Chinese speakers don't tend to over pronounce consonants, which a lot of other languages do. They over pronounce the consonants in English.

What they do is they tend to under pronounce most of them, but they have been taught so well by their school system to articulate everything, every single little sound that they end up speaking kind of like robots.

So, it’s kind of it's speaking like this “where they are trying to articulate everything” and then then there's no flow and then it doesn't sound natural. And then it's hard to relate to the speaker because they're not kind of expressing the full feelings and thoughts that they're having in a subtle way.

Elliot Epstein:             And you coach about the flow, don’t you?

Daniel Wolfson:         Yeah, so I'm all about the flow. Flow is the absolute key to this whole course that I do. I think of it like water.

So, you got to have the water flowing, and what stops the water flowing is blocks, something that's like blocking that flow. And what in speech that blocks the flow is when the tongue or the mouth is just blocking the airflow. Basically, it's stopping that air from coming out . Now I’m mixing my metaphors. Now I should talk about air rather than water. Probably keep it simpler. Let's think of the flow of air. So, when the air is flowing, the voice is flowing, the voice is flowing on the breath.

The breath is the air. When the lips are closed, the breath doesn't come out. When the tongue is pressed high on the top of the mouth, the air is restricted and doesn't come out too easily. And consonants are what produces those positions. So, we soften all that down and allow everything to flow.

Elliot Epstein:             That’s terrific. So, I mentioned Singapore, which obviously is also very multicultural. And most Singaporeans have a very, very good education system. And language is similar to us. But I mention that because there's so many different nationalities that live there. And one of the most prevalent, I think is Indians in the hub. So, in the region of Singapore, which is a large executive hub, I've met a lot of really experienced, highly technical, almost brilliant Indians, but they struggle with speed and pace and they struggle with articulation.

And unfortunately, on many occasions, they can't get the great expertise over to other members of the audience. So, what are your key tips about those sort of people?

Daniel Wolfson:         This is this is definitely a big one. So, this is an interesting one, too, because like the English language for Indian speakers is almost a first language. So, it's a kind of a different kind of thing that's going on here. And Indian speakers tend to speak so fast and so fluently because it feels like it's almost their first language.

And so, the first thing that has to happen is, yeah, you got to slow down. It's got to be slower.

And one interesting thing about Indian pronunciation of English compared to a native English speaker version of pronunciation of English, if you can follow that sentence, is I talked about the flow before.

Now the native English speakers have soft consonants and big, long, lazy vowels.  Those vowels are nice, long and lazy and are consonants are very soft.

But Indian speakers have literally the opposite very, very short vowels and very hard-hitting consonants.

So, if I can dare to do an impression which is going to be kind of stereotypical, so forgive me for that, “but it's kind of more technical talking like this where the vowels are becoming very short and the consonants, the these sounds appear in the D and the T's” become very heavy and very strong. And that confuses a lot of people when they're listening because people are actually listening. Native speakers are actually listening to the vowels. That's that was given us the clue about what people are saying.

If we can't hear the vowel or the vowel is not right, then we get confused. Whereas a lot of people, when they're trying to speak English clearly and they speak English as a second language, they're really hitting the consonants as hard as they can because they think that's where the clarity is. So, there's a bit of a confusion there.

Elliot Epstein:             That's fascinating that it's the vowels that are the key, and yet the consonants are what they focus on, which is a great insight.

When you move to Europe into Germany, “we have a very precise language. And in this situation, it is so clear and so precise and so perfect zat  it doesn't have the relatability.”

So, what do you do in that situation where these people are terrific at their jobs as well? But the likability is out of the voice?

Daniel Wolfson:         Yeah, that's so it's so interesting and so true. I have I have a German client at the moment, actually, and she's incredibly talented, so smart, so sharp, so quick. And that all comes out in her voice.

Of course, it all comes out in a speech like, well, our personality does come out in a speech, but the bit that doesn't come out is the receptivity, the openness to relaxation, easy-going, nervous. And that's a big feature specifically of Aussie accents.

And so, she actually speaks very, very well, articulate. No problem with clarity. And when you did your lovely impression just now, you replace TH with a Z, which is a typical feature.

She doesn't even do that. But what she does do is this very fast speech and as you say, “very clipped and short and efficient like this.”

And my main goal with her actually is just slowing it down and being a bit more lazy. And the problem she has in response to that is she gets very frustrated.

She just wants to go fast and get the message out faster. But obviously, communication is not just about getting it out fast. Communication is about receptivity and how you're relating. So, she's having to learn about speaking in a different style, which is mainly just slower, taking it easy and how that relates to how she feels when she's communicating.

Elliot Epstein:             Excellent. And one final one, because I have a lot of US companies as clients and when the US actually export people to other countries, the US send executives out here to sell or run divisions, or they go especially in the Asian region, Asia Pac region and Singapore or Vietnam or Hong Kong and places like that, they often have issues with communication gaps as well.

And when I coach them, you know, one of the biggest things we have to talk about is the sheer volume that occurs in a lot of American language. It doesn't have to be at 100 decibels. And secondly, it doesn't have to be the most urgent thing in the world, the most passionate thing in the world every time you're talking about a simple finance issue. And I'm sure you've seen that. And there are there are myriad accents here from the north to the south to New York and so on.

But what are your key points about people from America who end up selling and managing areas in other parts of the world?

Daniel Wolfson:         Well, let's see. So, I think what's interesting about the volume that you mentioned trying to get that, you know, it’s almost like an advertising with all the bells and whistles on it.

And I do a lot of work with people are using scripts. We use scripts, sometimes we use them for plays or movies. It doesn't matter where we get them from, and we just start to experiment with a different way of communicating. And we start exploring things like pauses, which is a really interesting thing. Now, a lot of actors use pauses in a really interesting way. So, if you just put pauses in your speech, in unusual places, sometimes it just really draws people in, and people are shocked sometimes that they don't have to speak fast or loud to get full focused attention of the person that’s actually listening to them.

So that can be really, really interesting, revealing stuff, using a script and just suggesting ways that they never thought of articulating something before, not even in pronunciation, but just in speed, in volume. Yeah, sometimes so quietly and so softly and taking a long time and they get restless and know they're going to be bored but actually sometimes they can be very interesting.

Elliot Epstein:             Yeah. The key thing is that’s it’s not about the presenter. As you and I have both coached when it comes to the various aspects of presenting and communicating ... the core principle is that it’s not about you, it’s about your audience.

And what you do is help people become clearer to the audiences when they present and that’s a key part of the process, that you can be as smart as you like, you can have all the presentation skills in the world, and all the expertise, but if the clarity doesn’t come across, then they're still behind the eight ball.

Elliot Epstein:             Daniel, it's been terrific to catch up with you. Fascinating insights as we went around the world to see what people do and how they can potentially improve.

So, if people are sitting there right now, maybe they're concerned about their accent or maybe they have a colleague or a staff member they think could get value out of this…. now, obviously, after they've called me to coach their presentations, they're going to call you around the accent.

How do they get in touch with you?

Daniel Wolfson:         The simplest way would just be to go to https://pronunciationschool.com/  and you will find everything that's there on my website and you'll be able to send me a message or book a consultation with me, if that's what you would like to do.

Elliot Epstein:             Spoken in perfect English and your accent supports that beautifully.

Daniel, it's been terrific to catch up with you.

I wish you all the best, you’re doing ZOOM sessions, I presume, for this coaching?

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, everything's on Zoom.

Elliot Epstein:              Great, and we'll catch up with you soon. Take care, Daniel.

Daniel Wolfson:         Cheers, Elliot, bye bye.

Elliot Epstein:             The infamous character Austin Powers had a dad called Nigel, played by Michael Caine, who once said, “There are only two things I can't stand; people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.”

Well, Daniel and I both agree that there is no accent in the world that is a barrier to success, but if there is a lack of clarity and persuasiveness, it can be detrimental to an individual's success and it doesn't have to be that way.

With a combination of pausing, phrasing and vocal technique, anyone can improve their communication if they so desire. For a bit of fun to end this podcast and to reinforce why authenticity matters, I'll leave you with the famous actor Sean Connery. Yes, the great Scot who wanted us to believe that this was a Russian submarine commander:

“I present you the ballistic missile submarine, Red October. My officers and I request asylum in the United States of America.”

Stay safe, Stay positive.

Remember, your ears are safe, Daniel and I recorded this entire podcast 2 consonants away from each other.

Take care of yourselves. Till next time.